BeemerGaz Posted February 28, 2021 Report Share Posted February 28, 2021 Hi all, Not been on here for ages...won't bore you with the reasons. Firstly I hope everyone is keeping well and taking care of themselves. Anyway straight to the reason I'm here... I'm having a problem with my 54' reg Ruby Red 330ci which I hope someone can help me with. On starting the car from cold there is a rather alarming and annoying noise mainly coming from the right side of the engine. It only lasts about a minute or so then dies down. The car has had loads of work done since I've owned her mostly to do with the cooling system ie water pump, thermostat, radiator, expansion tank, viscous fan and various belts here and there. I've been to a garage to have it looked at and they've informed me that it sounds like it may well need the timing chain done. The place is owned by a work colleague's friend so I doubt very much that they're in it to fob me off. The timing chain has never been done before and to say that it's currently on just over 142,000 miles it may be time to change said chain. What are folks opinions on the noise and the thought that it may be the chain at fault. I may have missed something important from the above guff but I'm happy enough to answer anyone's questions. Ta muchly for any help that you can give... BG PS I've tried to upload a video of said noise but I have to compress it further than I've done already...I'll attempt to do that now and add it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeemerGaz Posted February 28, 2021 Author Report Share Posted February 28, 2021 What the hell...apparently I can only upload 215.04kB and the file I'm trying to upload is 9.27mb. I've reduced by loads already so does anybody know a good way of reducing it further. Btw I normally use Clideo. In hindsight I should have used a lower setting on my phone to take the video...doh!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schumacher Posted March 1, 2021 Report Share Posted March 1, 2021 It's difficult to advise anything without hearing/seeing it in person. I doubt the chain needs replacing; it's more likely to be VANOS rattle. Have you replaced the seals? Any other issues apart from cold start rattle? Does it drive ok? p.s. why don't you upload to YouTube? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeemerGaz Posted March 1, 2021 Author Report Share Posted March 1, 2021 2 hours ago, Schumacher said: It's difficult to advise anything without hearing/seeing it in person. I doubt the chain needs replacing; it's more likely to be VANOS rattle. Have you replaced the seals? Any other issues apart from cold start rattle? Does it drive ok? p.s. why don't you upload to YouTube? Thanks for the help mate. I wasn't sure about the chain either to be honest. Nope I've not done the seals and going by what service/repair records I have neither has the previous owner/s. Would the VANOS stop making a racket after about a minute and be more prominent when starting the car from cold? Looking at the symptoms of a faulty/failing VANOS it seems like a good shout. Apart from the obvious rattling noise it does tend to idle fairly roughly from time to time but thankfully never gets so bad that it conks out. It has gone into limp mode before but I'm sure that was down to a failing coil pack which was replaced. I've certainly noticed a reduction in fuel economy and an ever so slight horsepower/torque loss. There's also a fairly strong smell which has a 'running rich' feel to me...though it hasn't got a petrol or a sulphur smell to it! Ah yes I forgot the YouTube idea...I'll try and get something up so I'm able to post it here. Thanks again... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
momo Posted March 1, 2021 Report Share Posted March 1, 2021 I don't know Petrol engines at all, but it'd be nice to hear their explanation of why the sound is there for a minute when cold and then disappears when warm if they honestly believe it's the chain. If the chain or guides are worn, they're worn at all times! Not just when it's cold.. lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schumacher Posted March 3, 2021 Report Share Posted March 3, 2021 On 01/03/2021 at 12:42, BeemerGaz said: Thanks for the help mate. I wasn't sure about the chain either to be honest. Nope I've not done the seals and going by what service/repair records I have neither has the previous owner/s. Would the VANOS stop making a racket after about a minute and be more prominent when starting the car from cold? Looking at the symptoms of a faulty/failing VANOS it seems like a good shout. Apart from the obvious rattling noise it does tend to idle fairly roughly from time to time but thankfully never gets so bad that it conks out. It has gone into limp mode before but I'm sure that was down to a failing coil pack which was replaced. I've certainly noticed a reduction in fuel economy and an ever so slight horsepower/torque loss. There's also a fairly strong smell which has a 'running rich' feel to me...though it hasn't got a petrol or a sulphur smell to it! Ah yes I forgot the YouTube idea...I'll try and get something up so I'm able to post it here. Thanks again... Everything you've mentioned points to the VANOS. Loss of low-end torque <3k, increased fuel consumption, idle hiccups and sometimes bogging down. Do you have idle jolts on cold start up (more common on M52TU, though)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeemerGaz Posted March 3, 2021 Author Report Share Posted March 3, 2021 On 01/03/2021 at 16:16, momo said: I don't know Petrol engines at all, but it'd be nice to hear their explanation of why the sound is there for a minute when cold and then disappears when warm if they honestly believe it's the chain. If the chain or guides are worn, they're worn at all times! Not just when it's cold.. lol Ta muchly for the reply. They unfortunately didn't give any explanation on why it only occurs when it's cold. Being that the mechanic is a friend of a friend I politely nodded during the time at the garage but I've subsequently told my friend to decline the offer of the repair...even though all in it was only going to cost £650 which I thought wasn't too bad as I assume at a stealership they'd want at least a pot of cash, my first born and an internal organ of their choosing. 18 minutes ago, Schumacher said: Everything you've mentioned points to the VANOS. Loss of low-end torque <3k, increased fuel consumption, idle hiccups and sometimes bogging down. Do you have idle jolts on cold start up (more common on M52TU, though)? It's looking more and more like it's the VANOS at fault. I wouldn't say there's any definite idle jolts on cold start up but there are deffo idle hiccups. Sometimes when say driving onto the driveway and then stopping the idle drops to about 500rpm or so but then goes back up to normal. If it is the VANOS at fault how much roughly am I looking at. I've watched the instructional video but it does seem to be just a bit out of my DIY'ing skill level. I'm going to upload the video to YouTube in a bit so you can hear it. Thanks again for everyone's help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeemerGaz Posted March 3, 2021 Author Report Share Posted March 3, 2021 Hi all, here's the YouTube video of the noise from my engine. Hope it gives enough information... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schumacher Posted March 4, 2021 Report Share Posted March 4, 2021 (edited) Hmm, interesting. Notice when you step back, the rattling noise can be heard from the front. Process of elimination would be best instead of forking out money on something that may not fix your problem(s). Easy to check a few things on the front of the engine... Tensioners, idlers, or another pulley. Just release the tension off the belt via the tensioner and spin everything by hand. Water pumps can also make a rattling sound when the bearing fails but usually they can sound ok from cold and worse when warm but I wouldn't rule it out. Again, just spin by hand. As yours is an auto, could also be the fan clutch (viscous coupling). You'll need a clutch tool/32mm spanner to remove the fan to access the belts. Where you're pointing the camera is where the DISA valve sits. It (the flap) can fail and rattle but that would be heard even when the engine is warm. Doesn't harm to test it though. Just pinch and lift up the connector (with the engine running). Also remove it (with the engine off) and test the flap. A Dead DISA/O-ring will give you lean codes and loss of torque. Do you have access to a code reader/software? Ideally INPA, DIS or PA Soft? VANOS sits on the front of the engine. GIF for you: Edited March 4, 2021 by Schumacher Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeemerGaz Posted March 17, 2021 Author Report Share Posted March 17, 2021 On 04/03/2021 at 14:20, Schumacher said: Hmm, interesting. Notice when you step back, the rattling noise can be heard from the front. Process of elimination would be best instead of forking out money on something that may not fix your problem(s). Easy to check a few things on the front of the engine... Tensioners, idlers, or another pulley. Just release the tension off the belt via the tensioner and spin everything by hand. Water pumps can also make a rattling sound when the bearing fails but usually they can sound ok from cold and worse when warm but I wouldn't rule it out. Again, just spin by hand. As yours is an auto, could also be the fan clutch (viscous coupling). You'll need a clutch tool/32mm spanner to remove the fan to access the belts. Where you're pointing the camera is where the DISA valve sits. It (the flap) can fail and rattle but that would be heard even when the engine is warm. Doesn't harm to test it though. Just pinch and lift up the connector (with the engine running). Also remove it (with the engine off) and test the flap. A Dead DISA/O-ring will give you lean codes and loss of torque. Do you have access to a code reader/software? Ideally INPA, DIS or PA Soft? VANOS sits on the front of the engine. GIF for you: Many thanks for the reply and the continued help...it's all very much appreciated. The noise is still there but for some reason it's not as loud as it was before nor does it carry on for as long...it stops now after 20-30 seconds or so...but still damn annoying. I've had a look at the DISA valve and dis-connected it but sadly the noise still occurs. It does sound like it may well be a faulty VANOS but weirdly the noise really only eminates from the right hand side of the engine (not sure if it would only be from the left if it was the VANOS at fault) Unfortunately I haven't got access to any of those fault code readers that you mentioned. I've spent loads of money on various problems here and there but those problems seem to always come back...could try a different mechanic/garage I suppose :) In regards to a possible fault with the other things that you mentioned... I had a new fan clutch fitted (as well as a new radiator, thermostat, housing, expansion bottle, lower radiator hose, air con condenser fitted in the last year or so ago at a frankly silly cost...oh and also had a new water pump as well (all the parts were from BMW themselves) In early February to try and cure the problem I had a radiator outlet sensor and ancillary/auxillary drive belts replaced. It's sadly getting to the stage where I think it's time I cut my losses and sell the car on (there's other problems as well that need addressing)....first £20 takes her (not really...throw in a tube of smarties as well:) Thanks again, BG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeemerGaz Posted March 24, 2021 Author Report Share Posted March 24, 2021 Hi all, Quick update on the continuing car saga... The noise is still there but not as prominent but... On driving home yesterday early evening and within a mile or so of the house the cog (of death) symbol flashed up on the dash. It happened before but many months ago and seemed to rectify itself. Quick query if I may... Would a possible failing battery cause this as I seem to remember it happening last time when I came off a motorway and braked for the junction. It occurred last night after going over numerous speed humps in the road so constantly braking and accelerating. Also when I start the car the red battery light tends to stay on for a couple of seconds then goes out. As far as I know and according to my folder of receipts it's never had a new battery. Hope someone can offer a bit of advice...again!! Cheers in advance Oh and I'll be putting it up for sale on ebay if anyone fancies it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeemerGaz Posted March 24, 2021 Author Report Share Posted March 24, 2021 Even quicker update... Just done a battery test and it seems like there's nothing wrong with it. I may well have to sell it with the possibility of the cog symbol appearing again...but since I have a conscience I'll mention this to the possible buyer/s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
