Nine68 Posted January 26, 2011 Report Share Posted January 26, 2011 Hi. I have a 5 speed manual 330i touring sport. Great car with about 70K miles on. Im looking at replacing the clutch soon, and whilst im at it i wondered if its possible to swap the gearbox + upgrade to a 6 speed unit. The "gate" / detent spring on the 5 speed unit is in need of replacement, not a problem when the box is out. But as i said ide like to go for a 6 speed unit. SO Does anybody know if this is possible.? If so what bits will i need, obviously a 6 speed box, maybee a propshaft, anything else.? I know the later cars came with a 6 speed unit as a mate of mine had one in his 330td touring. Thanks and i hope somebody can help me out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vas Posted January 27, 2011 Report Share Posted January 27, 2011 Seems to be possible Clicky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonlpearce Posted January 27, 2011 Report Share Posted January 27, 2011 It is possible but it doesnt really offer many advantages as the gearing between 5 & 6 speed boxes is exactly the same. The 6th gear is just an overdrive gear for motorway cruising. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scrimja Posted January 27, 2011 Report Share Posted January 27, 2011 It is possible but it doesnt really offer many advantages as the gearing between 5 & 6 speed boxes is exactly the same. The 6th gear is just an overdrive gear for motorway cruising. So it does offer an advantage...an over drive gear. Which going by the bazillions of MPG threads makes quite a difference in MPG figures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt_330CI Posted January 27, 2011 Report Share Posted January 27, 2011 It may make a few MPG difference on the motorway, but the cost of the box + fitting would negate that for quite sometime unless you'd doing 50k a year or something insane. Bit like a 330d doing more mpg than a 330i but costing £5k more to buy. You'd have to drive it a lot for 3 years just to break even. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nutz Posted January 27, 2011 Report Share Posted January 27, 2011 (edited) If the thread linked above costings are correct you would need to save $2500.00 + What your times worth to do it, of petrol. Assuming the 6th gear is just for MPG gains. Matt_330CI; its a valid point however the resale of the diesels are above the petrol counterpart. As I post this, anyway. But do what you feel like, life would be dull if everyone just did cost to benefit analysis on everything. Edited January 27, 2011 by Nutz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pablo Posted January 27, 2011 Report Share Posted January 27, 2011 he was doing an auto swap to manual though, a manual to manual swap would only need (I think) a box (£500 say), a propshaft (£100?) and the gearchange bits (get with box maybe). Given the rarity of 6sp E46s (why the f**k is that?) youre best bet is an E60 petrol gearbox. Reloem will show compatable models. Youd probably do it for sub 1k anyway. If you need a different flywheel and clutch thats going to hurt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pablo Posted January 27, 2011 Report Share Posted January 27, 2011 looks like the flywheel is different, not sure if that means it wont fit, but different part number anyway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt_330CI Posted January 27, 2011 Report Share Posted January 27, 2011 Think about it this way, there's no performance gain in it. So the only benefit what so ever from having a 6th gear is MPG. A 5 speed, if you are watching your mpg will do around 30-35mpg at 70mph on a flat motorway. Gaz (I think) mentioned his 6sp will do 35-40mpg at the same speed in the same surface. So you're saving between 5 & 10 mpg. Lets call it an average of 7.5mpg then. Fuel costs at the moment for super unleaded are aprox £1.30 per litre. Lets round it off for ease - 4.5 litres to the gallon = £5.85 per gallon. A 63 litre tank costs (rounded) £82 63 litres = 14 gallons. So, for £82 a 5 speed car at 32.5 mpg will do 455 miles And for £82 a 6 speed car at 40mph (7.5mpg difference) will do 560 miles 105 miles difference for the 7.5mpg gain per £82 of fuel. Break that down a bit, say you put in £20 instead of £82 you will get aprox an extra 26 miles per £20 There is a saving to be made. What it depends on is how much you drive the car, how much converting it to a 6sp will costs and most importantly - how many of those miles you do on a motorway. As you will only get the benefit in 6th gear, if, as most people do, you drive off the motorway more than on it, you're not getting the benefit. Unless of course there's another motive than MPG. Such as pub bragging rights or wanting a quieter drive at motorway speeds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singh Posted January 27, 2011 Report Share Posted January 27, 2011 Bit like a 330d doing more mpg than a 330i but costing £5k more to buy. You'd have to drive it a lot for 3 years just to break even. But with a 330d you can drive as hard as you like, as much as you like and still get back around 30mpg - so its not just about mileage, it is about how you drive too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamN Posted January 27, 2011 Report Share Posted January 27, 2011 If my gearbox ever needs changing i'd seriously consider this as an upgrade. I wouldn't do it if my gear box was in perfect working order as, touch wood, it is at the moment. Personally, 90% of my commute to work is motorway and i'd benefit hugely from a 6th gear a lot of the time. However, the cost to put it in place puts me off obviously. Unless i needed a new gear box anyway (unlikely). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt_330CI Posted January 27, 2011 Report Share Posted January 27, 2011 But you wouldnt be saving any money. Buying it for the sake of saving money on the MPG alone is completely negated by the buying cost. If it did 150 mpg compared to a 330i doing 15mpg then may be it would even itself out quicker then start saving you money. But definately in the short term all your MPPG savings will do nothing other than pay for the premium in buying price. My mum is a a lovely woman, but a bit daft. She had an old Astra (yes, the same one I got stuck with for a while) that was doing aprox 30mpg which needed work every now and then. She'd had it for 7 years I'd say. She decided it was costing her too much money, so she wanted a new car to save her money. So she got a brand new Citroen C1. Running costs Vs Astra MPG - C1 - 50-60mpg - Astra 25-30mpg Tax C1 - £35 a year - Astra - £220ish Insurance - about the same Servicing - about the same She does about 15k miles a year. The car cost about £7.5k Poor woman cannot see that despite smaller day to day running costs, the £7.5k she spent on the car will take her donkeys years to recoup before she's actually saving any money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonlpearce Posted January 27, 2011 Report Share Posted January 27, 2011 Either way i feel we have given an informed view for the OP to decide what to do! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pablo Posted January 27, 2011 Report Share Posted January 27, 2011 as said if the box needs replacing then maybe a good time to upgrade but not worth it otherwise Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz Posted January 27, 2011 Report Share Posted January 27, 2011 Personally, 90% of my commute to work is motorway and i'd benefit hugely from a 6th gear a lot of the time.. Is it only the facelift 330's that have 6 gears then? I just thought all facelifts did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt_330CI Posted January 27, 2011 Report Share Posted January 27, 2011 You wonder if BMW fitted it to the 330 to lower the average emissions down? How much is your yearly tax Gaz? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz Posted January 27, 2011 Report Share Posted January 27, 2011 You wonder if BMW fitted it to the 330 to lower the average emissions down? How much is your yearly tax Gaz? Could be. Anything that can make the car look better on paper. It's about £245 I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pablo Posted January 27, 2011 Report Share Posted January 27, 2011 6sp was around for ages tho, the M3 evo had it from what 96? I really wonder why the E46 started with a 5sp box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt_330CI Posted January 27, 2011 Report Share Posted January 27, 2011 I doubt the M3 Evo 6sp box would fit a non M3 engine though. Just thinking, they're all limited to 155mph, but without that restrictor I wonder what the top end difference would be between a 5 & 6 speed car. Gaz, mines £245 too. But I think mine falls on a date that makes it banded differently to yours. I wonder if yours would be different (more) had it not had the 6sp box Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mit Posted January 27, 2011 Report Share Posted January 27, 2011 6sp was around for ages tho, the M3 evo had it from what 96? I really wonder why the E46 started with a 5sp box. Because when they were designing it in 1996, a 6-speed gearbox was reserved for very high performance cars and was not a major selling point for a compact exectutive. None of the competition was selling a 6-speed box as standard at the time. Fuel economy wasn't much of a selling point either. I remember walking into the Lexus dealer interested in a new IS200 around 1998/9 or so, and the salesman telling me the car gets about 22mpg on the combined cycle, and fills with 70 litres. I was like "excuse me?" because my 2 litre turbocharged Peugeot 406SRi I had at the time gave me about 30mpg and I drove it like it was stolen! Anyway assuming they planned on selling 500000 e46 models globally, and the cost of the extra gearbox is 100€, they stood to save 50 million euros by not fitting a 6-speed box as standard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonlpearce Posted January 27, 2011 Report Share Posted January 27, 2011 Anyway assuming they planned on selling 500000 e46 models globally, and the cost of the extra gearbox is 100€, they stood to save 50 million euros by not fitting a 6-speed box as standard. I wonder if the theory behind this could also be applied to the lean we have been discussing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz Posted January 27, 2011 Report Share Posted January 27, 2011 I know up until 2001 (I think) cars had two tax bands. Up to 1.5l was one price, then over 1.5l was another price. After then they did it on emissions. I'm guessing your car is a 2000 or 2001 plate? Maybe someone with a 330 post-2001 can let us know how much their tax is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt_330CI Posted January 27, 2011 Report Share Posted January 27, 2011 Wikipedia says only the 330's got the 6sp box from the middle of 2003 onwards. Unfortunately it doesnt say why, all it says is that it is a getrag box and initially the "new" model only came with that as a manual, auto and SMG came a bit later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pablo Posted January 27, 2011 Report Share Posted January 27, 2011 my 03 reg 330 is 135/245 tax for 6/12 months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz Posted January 27, 2011 Report Share Posted January 27, 2011 Is yours manual Pablo? Matt, I know it was one of the upgrades in the facelift, but I guess it must have just been the 330's that got it. Weird. I did always think it was on the smaller engines too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
