Sam Posted September 19, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 19, 2012 This is a stop gap until I get a classifieds system on the site, which again won't allow bumps. People can mark items as sold by updating the topic (title) still, which does happen. But you'll never get every user updating their adverts. I call cars listed on AT and it sold 3 weeks ago, they are just lazy. RickyZ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colossuss Posted September 19, 2012 Report Share Posted September 19, 2012 I think it's a good idea Sam. Everyone else should judge after it's been in action for a couple of weeks mit, simonlpearce and RickyZ 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ Syxx Posted September 19, 2012 Report Share Posted September 19, 2012 (edited) Lets cleara a few things up. I don't want people to bump topics. You can't bump on AT or PH or any other car sales site, so why on this one? I want it to be done on 'posted on' order, people can then browse the newer (and more likely to be available) ads first. The PM limit was put in place to stop people joining the site, buying something and then disappearing. Why change it? You can bump on pretty much all other forums. Those sites you speak of are Sales sites. This is a "Forum." Not the same. Its a stupid idea because you will have the same ad made by the same member a week later and will just make it ridiculous to browse through. Regarding your PM limit for new users. I don't think its a good idea. To me it puts subscribers who sell stuff on here at a disadvantage. Lets say a Sub is trying to sell an item, has had no response but you have the guy who may not use forums much but wants that item and has a few posts. They can't PM the person to buy the item. This to me hinders the person selling it and that's not fair on them as it costs them a sale and takes the piss of the subscriber who has paid their sub fee so they can sell on here. You have to accept the fact not everyone is into forums. No other forum has these rule in place. Sam it seems to me you come up with some "bright idea", implement it without taking any thought into it. Edited September 19, 2012 by DJ Syxx Matt_S, mjn, ben and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Posted September 19, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 19, 2012 You can bump on pretty much all other forums. Those sites you speak of are Sales sites. This is a "Forum." Not the same. Its a stupid idea because you will have the same ad made by the same member a week later and will just make it ridiculous to browse through. Regarding your PM limit for new users. I don't think its a good idea. To me it puts subscribers who sell stuff on here at a disadvantage. Lets say a Sub is trying to sell an item, has had no response but you have the guy who may not use forums much but wants that item and has a few posts. They can't PM the person to buy the item. This to me hinders the person selling it and that's not fair on them as it costs them a sale and takes the piss of the subscriber who has paid their sub fee so they can sell on here. You have to accept the fact not everyone is into forums. No other forum has these rule in place. Sam it seems to me you come up with some "bright idea", implement it without taking any thought into it. Bumping can turn into a race for people to always have their item for sale at the top of the list. Any member who duplicates their item for sale will have it removed, its 1 topic per item. The PM limit was put in place to try and get people using the forum, not just the PM function. We have many helpful topics, but if a new member joins and PM's someone for help and gets an answer, no one will see it. We want as much useful content on the site as possible, so we try to make people use the public area. I have wanted to limit 'for sale' topics to not have replys for some time, they just turn into discussion threads, including completly off topic posts, we have a seperate section for that. I have also said that I will be changing the way adverts are handled on the site, it'll no longer be run as a topic, but we will have a specific area for adverts, which will act more like a classifieds section, with a feedback system build in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mit Posted September 19, 2012 Report Share Posted September 19, 2012 (edited) I've had users PM me with questions but I rarely give them any answer other than "try searching for xyx" which points them towards what they should have done in the first place. Not sure I agree with Sam or not on the new restriction. It makes little or no difference to me personally, apart from having just posted a for sale ad up yesterday that's already gone way past the top of the list of threads without any responses. I'm unlikely to have bumped it anyway though as it makes me cringe when I see people bumping their threads. I can see where DJ Syxx is coming from when he says Sam implements things without much thought and then makes announcements about them. That's very dictatorial, but Sam does occasionally ask for feedback before he implements things. I think that would be the more polite way of doing things, but it's probably more trouble than it's worth asking a change approval board about every change he's about to make. Also, easy to say it's your forum and you can do what you like (or for others to say that), but as subscribers we are paying you for your forum, and effectively your customers. Ignore us at your peril Edited September 19, 2012 by mit ben 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlE46 Posted September 19, 2012 Report Share Posted September 19, 2012 I do see the piont in doing this but could there be some guidelines of basics for the adverts? ie as a minimum a basic description of the item including condition, a price, location and a photo? It would stop people having to send PM's asking for a price etc Nothing more annoying than a for sale advert with no photo or price (or offers) dosen't take much to put a bit of effort into it if you want peoples money for your goods. Just my 2p worth Charlie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CliffThomson Posted September 19, 2012 Report Share Posted September 19, 2012 Why not implement the "like" function in there, and have it PM the advertising member? Use it as a sign of "I'm interested, please PM me so we can talk about it" Would that work? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Posted September 19, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 19, 2012 (edited) I've had users PM me with questions but I rarely give them any answer other than "try searching for xyx" which points them towards what they should have done in the first place. Not sure I agree with Sam or not on the new restriction. It makes little or no difference to me personally, apart from having just posted a for sale ad up yesterday that's already gone way past the top of the list of threads without any responses. I'm unlikely to have bumped it anyway though as it makes me cringe when I see people bumping their threads. I can see where DJ Syxx is coming from when he says Sam implements things without much thought and then makes announcements about them. That's very dictatorial, but Sam does occasionally ask for feedback before he implements things. I think that would be the more polite way of doing things, but it's probably more trouble than it's worth asking a change approval board about every change he's about to make. Also, easy to say it's your forum and you can do what you like (or for others to say that), but as subscribers we are paying you for your forum, and effectively your customers. Ignore us at your peril We do have a 'forum suggestions' topic, yet no one seems to post in it. I also think that had the for sale section originally been setup as it is now, people wouldn't have complained then. It was taking up a lot of the moderators time to keep checking the for sale topics, and the rules do say "For sale adverts are not for discussion, please only post in this section if you express interest in an item or would like more information.", yet people keep posting off topic posts in them. So, if everyone stuck to the rules, I'd have not needed to make this change. Everyone bangs on when something is changed or a post that is breaking the rules is deleted. But, we do have rules in place, they get broken, then we deal with it. This change just removes the necessity for mods to keep removing posts. As I've said recently, the Mods and I are working on a new set of forum rules, that will be made available to all. We will also ask for feedback from subscribers once we have come up with what we think is fair. You're right mit, people pay to support this site, and its a great help. But, everyone thinks differently, so its very hard to please everyone. I do see the piont in doing this but could there be some guidelines of basics for the adverts? ie as a minimum a basic description of the item including condition, a price, location and a photo? It would stop people having to send PM's asking for a price etc Nothing more annoying than a for sale advert with no photo or price (or offers) dosen't take much to put a bit of effort into it if you want peoples money for your goods. Just my 2p worth Charlie You mean like what is said in the rules? http://www.e46zone.c...d-wanted-rules/ Only 1 or 2 have ever followed the topic naming convention for example. Why not implement the "like" function in there, and have it PM the advertising member? Use it as a sign of "I'm interested, please PM me so we can talk about it" Would that work? Isn't that backwards? If you're intrested then PM the member. People could just 'like' a topic but not be intrested, then the seller needs to chase every 'like' up. Edited September 19, 2012 by Sam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CliffThomson Posted September 19, 2012 Report Share Posted September 19, 2012 The point i am making is members below the PM limit of posts, cannot pm or contact the member as they cannot post in the thread, or PM directly due to forum rules. So you're effectively handicapping the newcomers from making a potential purchase, or getting more involved. That's constructive critique btw, i do agree with what you're trying to do, but it would be good to see it done in a way that allows newcomers not to suffer accordingly. I was one once! C. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt_S Posted September 19, 2012 Report Share Posted September 19, 2012 Im sorry Sam, but in all my years on forums since 1999 Ive never heard of anything so silly. You have to pay to be able to sell. Fair enough. Now you wont allow GLWTS, 'Oh thats a good price' or anything possibly complimentary to the thread. I dont see the point of a classified style part of the forum. If they font want any discussion, then fair enough. Put it on ebay. Or PH. Or AT. Newcomers cant PM either. I really dont see the problem with bumping. No disrespect, but you are allowed to on forums which are TEN times more busy than this one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blair Posted September 19, 2012 Report Share Posted September 19, 2012 Seems like a rule for the sake of having yet another rule to me, where are the rules btw I have asked in the correct area but it's been ignored. As I subscriber I feel like some of the sites selling power has been taken away not everybody 'posts' on forums there will be dozens if not 100's of members on here that view but rarely post but now they can't buy my for sale items as they have under 50 posts..... If you want the newest thread (not reply) to be at the top this is simple tick box exercise in the forum software. What is the problem if a forsale topic goes off topic so to speak? Do those few dozens posts cost extra money? If the OP doesn't like it he can PM a mod to clear up & post and get it back on track, sometimes chat on forsale post is healthy for a sale too, without it that muppet on the VX220 forum may well have got away with selling a smashed car to an unsuspecting buyer.... Cannockwolf, Wingedplummer and Matt_S 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt_S Posted September 19, 2012 Report Share Posted September 19, 2012 Good point Blair! The whole GLWTS etc is a no no. What about the 'DO NOT BUY THIS CAR, IT WAS MY MATES CAR AND WAS WRITTEN OFF TWO YEARS AGO' posts.... Without allowing comment, whats the point? Cannockwolf 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Posted September 20, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 20, 2012 The on-topic replys to adverts we fine, it was the people having discussions in a advert thread. Firstly, it makes someone who is looking at an item read through all of the off topics chat, and also means the seller has to do the same. The forum started getting to the point of everything turning into 'off topic banter'. Rules state to not post off topic replies in the 'for sale' section, so people should adhere to that rule, they didn't so something was put in place. When the rules are set (from the beginning might I add) we expect members to follow them, if they don't we take action. If no off topics replies were made, this rule would not have been changed. It took members breaking rules for me to do something about this, I didn't just change it for no reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stooza Posted September 20, 2012 Report Share Posted September 20, 2012 I have just thought.. if you are selling multiple bits such as a steering wheel, headlight and a seat belt in one ad, the wheel sells, how do you let people know? God, this is never easy is it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Posted September 20, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 20, 2012 I have just thought.. if you are selling multiple bits such as a steering wheel, headlight and a seat belt in one ad, the wheel sells, how do you let people know? God, this is never easy is it? You can edit the post and update it, or sell each item on a new topic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stooza Posted September 20, 2012 Report Share Posted September 20, 2012 Will updating the post not bump it back to the top? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CliffThomson Posted September 20, 2012 Report Share Posted September 20, 2012 So how do newbies who can neither post in the thread, or PM the member yet, communicate interest? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Posted September 20, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 20, 2012 Will updating the post not bump it back to the top? An edit shouldn't bump a topic So how do newbies who can neither post in the thread, or PM the member yet, communicate interest? Not 100% on this one, will probably remove the PM limit. RickyZ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stooza Posted September 20, 2012 Report Share Posted September 20, 2012 they cant mate, it's to stop them just swooping by to get an and never contribute to the forum and not come back. Perhaps an item that a regular contributer would miss out on. RickyZ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mneth1986 Posted September 20, 2012 Report Share Posted September 20, 2012 I don't think that stopping bumping for car ads and therefore having a classified section is a bad idea or a problem, because I think if you're looking for a car you're more likely to trawl through ads. There arent many that'll buy a car because the ads caught their eye from a bump. I think this is different for small parts. I've bought and sold a few small parts (grills etc) after bumping as its caught the right persons eye. RickyZ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stooza Posted September 20, 2012 Report Share Posted September 20, 2012 An edit shouldn't bump a topic Not 100% on this one, will probably remove the PM limit. Cheers Sam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colossuss Posted September 20, 2012 Report Share Posted September 20, 2012 The PM limit should stay on. Do you really want someone with 0 posts trying to buy something from you? Would you trust them? How do you know they won't PayPal you, let you post the item and then claim it back? Stooza and RickyZ 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Posted September 20, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 20, 2012 The PM limit should stay on. Do you really want someone with 0 posts trying to buy something from you? Would you trust them? How do you know they won't PayPal you, let you post the item and then claim it back? This is the flip side. The limit isn't exactly high, and we want members to become part of the forum, not just lurk in the darkness snapping up all the good deals and selling them on. RickyZ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz Posted September 20, 2012 Report Share Posted September 20, 2012 The PM limit should stay on. Do you really want someone with 0 posts trying to buy something from you? Would you trust them? How do you know they won't PayPal you, let you post the item and then claim it back? Take payment via paypal for the purchase of goods, post recorded delivery so you can prove it turned up. RickyZ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob- Posted September 20, 2012 Report Share Posted September 20, 2012 The on-topic replys to adverts we fine, it was the people having discussions in a advert thread. Firstly, it makes someone who is looking at an item read through all of the off topics chat, and also means the seller has to do the same Takes about 2 seconds to skim through, just ask Trickster. Hardly like reading war and peace. You can usually work out wether a post is on topic after the first few words (or sometimesjust by looking at the username of the poster ). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
