TriggerFish Posted February 1, 2014 Report Share Posted February 1, 2014 Hi all, Not so much an issue, as much as wanting to fiddle with the car, and get it 'ready' for a remap next weekend. When I was driving around some switch back roads in Italy in 2012 (and Scotland last year - they're the only two times this has happened) under hard load the turbo would make a weird fluttering noise, which I read today could be the VNT. I remember a while ago pressing the VNT actuator and it being very stiff and not moving too far, so I thought I'd have a go at cleaning it, which spawns two questions. Firstly, how far should it move? I'd guess I can get it about 10mm, but it's painful on my thumb to do, and I don't remember seeing it move off it's own accord. Worth noting, the car seems to drive fine, and is pretty consistent with the power once the turbo has spooled up. Secondly, with something like the Mr Muscle cleaning, where do I send the foam? Is it down the pictured part of the EGR system? (That's what I'm thinking after reading guides on other engines. . . ) I'll also check the turbo vanes for movement too, and see if it's got a vortex filter or not fitted (really should have done this sooner!). Cheers! Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bungers Posted February 1, 2014 Report Share Posted February 1, 2014 I thought with mr muscle you had to remove the turbo from the car? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TriggerFish Posted February 1, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 1, 2014 (edited) Not on the VAG forums they don't seem too? http://www.briskoda.net/forums/topic/243533-the-mr-muscle-vnt-turbo-treatment-thought-we-needed-a-guide-of-sorts/ (I used to own a Skoda - don't judge me!) I just looked it again then, and there's a bit of oil on top of the vacuum 'can' type part (not sure what you'd call it). Not masses, and the joint to the turbo/maf pipe looks dry enough. Edited February 1, 2014 by TriggerFish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlE46 Posted February 1, 2014 Report Share Posted February 1, 2014 (edited) Cleaning with Mr Muscle requires it to be directly squirted in the exhaust side of the turbo to prevent any seals etc being destroyed, reading the Audi forum they removed the egr pipe which lead directly into the exhaust side of the turbo.... I think we'd have to remove the turbo to do it wouldn't we as the EGR isn't directly next to the turbo?? **edit** just had a quick look at the above linked and again the egr pipe leads in right above the turbo, I can't see how we could do it without removing the turbo... Edited February 1, 2014 by CharlE46 StuBeeDoo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bungers Posted February 1, 2014 Report Share Posted February 1, 2014 CharlE46, the EGR pipe on any car is going to lead back to the exhaust side of the turbo by it's very design. I think the issue you've got on these (well on mine but maybe not on earlier models) is that there's the EGR cooler in the way. If you could remove that then you should be able to get directly into the exhaust side of the turbo to be able to squirt the foam in? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TriggerFish Posted February 1, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 1, 2014 Ah, OK. Something makes me think the pipe is straight through on mine. It's a pain to remove though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bungers Posted February 1, 2014 Report Share Posted February 1, 2014 It's easy to check, if there's a rectangular metal box & some coolant pipes going to it you've got an EGR cooler. TriggerFish 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlE46 Posted February 2, 2014 Report Share Posted February 2, 2014 I still can't see how you'd do it as the egr pipe enters the exhaust manifold at the front next to Cyl 1 where as the turbo is half way back, I can't see you managing to get a pipe in and then down through 90deg to squirt directly into the turbo?? You'd end up filling the exhaust manifold and maybe back up the exhaust ports into the engine. It may well be possible as I've never attempted it I'm just thinking out loud Charlie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bungers Posted February 2, 2014 Report Share Posted February 2, 2014 You're right, that would be a proper ballache to try & get the feed into the turbo without mashing it all into the engine. Turbo off time on these then I reckon? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlE46 Posted February 2, 2014 Report Share Posted February 2, 2014 Maybe you could do it by dropping the downpipe off and squirting directly into the turbo?? It would save some of the hassle of removing the turbo fully but then with it removed you could remove the VNT assembly and give it a good soak and see what's what Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dooge Posted February 2, 2014 Report Share Posted February 2, 2014 Ive never heard of sticky VNTs on these, id guess because the electronic actuators are more manly than the traditional VAG ones. Also to point out Im pretty sure these are the same turbos as the 150bhp ARL VAG engines and they didnt have VNT issues so much due to more vanes, it was the smaller turbos with less vanes that had the issues mainly. I cleaned my turbo when I had it off the car but not sure how easily you could get access to it, as mentioned above. Id also say if its hard to push the actuator rod thats not necessarily a bad thing either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuBeeDoo Posted February 2, 2014 Report Share Posted February 2, 2014 (edited) Cleaning with Mr Muscle requires it to be directly squirted in the exhaust side of the turbo to prevent any seals etc being destroyed, reading the Audi forum they removed the egr pipe which lead directly into the exhaust side of the turbo.... I think we'd have to remove the turbo to do it wouldn't we as the EGR isn't directly next to the turbo?? **edit** just had a quick look at the above linked and again the egr pipe leads in right above the turbo, I can't see how we could do it without removing the turbo... Agreed. I had a look through all the stuff I could find on VAG engines, and (like Fords, IIRC) they have their EGRs on the exhaust side, not the inlet side. Maybe you could do it by dropping the downpipe off and squirting directly into the turbo?? It would save some of the hassle of removing the turbo fully but then with it removed you could remove the VNT assembly and give it a good soak and see what's what I'm not so sure about this one. As I understand it you need to get the cleaner to sit on the vanes. That would need the cleaner to be introduced from the engine side of the turbo. I can't see any way of doing it without having the turbo off. As always, if someone knows better I'm prepared to eat humble pie. PERSONALLY ....... I think the only solution to avoiding,or freeing-off, sticky vanes is to either use premium fuel or add regular doses of something like Forte Diesel Turbo Cleaner. I use supermarket fuel so I think I'm going to weigh-up the pros and cons of additives against V-Power (the only premium fuel I'd use). Edited February 2, 2014 by StuBeeDoo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TriggerFish Posted February 2, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 2, 2014 Ive never heard of sticky VNTs on these, id guess because the electronic actuators are more manly than the traditional VAG ones. Also to point out Im pretty sure these are the same turbos as the 150bhp ARL VAG engines and they didnt have VNT issues so much due to more vanes, it was the smaller turbos with less vanes that had the issues mainly. I cleaned my turbo when I had it off the car but not sure how easily you could get access to it, as mentioned above. Id also say if its hard to push the actuator rod thats not necessarily a bad thing either. I'm pretty sure my ARL didn't run a gt22** series? People also upgrade to these, so they mist be bigger than stock. Maybe the 320d shares though? I'm not willing to take it off the car, but it really doesn't seem doable after seeing that manifold photo. Oh well, was only a 'because I can' type thing anyway. Cheers for the help though guys! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuBeeDoo Posted February 2, 2014 Report Share Posted February 2, 2014 (edited) I'm not willing to take it off the car, but it really doesn't seem doable after seeing that manifold photo. Oh well, was only a 'because I can' type thing anyway. Cheers for the help though guys! Dude, if you think you might have a vane issue, try giving the Forte stuff a go. See here It says it can free them off............. Edited February 2, 2014 by StuBeeDoo TriggerFish 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlE46 Posted February 2, 2014 Report Share Posted February 2, 2014 Cleaning with Mr Muscle requires it to be directly squirted in the exhaust side of the turbo to prevent any seals etc being destroyed, reading the Audi forum they removed the egr pipe which lead directly into the exhaust side of the turbo.... I think we'd have to remove the turbo to do it wouldn't we as the EGR isn't directly next to the turbo?? **edit** just had a quick look at the above linked and again the egr pipe leads in right above the turbo, I can't see how we could do it without removing the turbo... Agreed. I had a look through all the stuff I could find on VAG engines, and (like Fords, IIRC) they have their EGRs on the exhaust side, not the inlet side. Maybe you could do it by dropping the downpipe off and squirting directly into the turbo?? It would save some of the hassle of removing the turbo fully but then with it removed you could remove the VNT assembly and give it a good soak and see what's what I'm not so sure about this one. As I understand it you need to get the cleaner to sit on the vanes. That would need the cleaner to be introduced from the engine side of the turbo. I can't see any way of doing it without having the turbo off. As always, if someone knows better I'm prepared to eat humble pie. I wasn't sure either, the idea I had in my head was it could be worked in combined with wiggling the actuator arm. Below you can see the back of the Vane assembly with the sliding ring that moves the vanes, guess it would be this that ends up sticking?? My old seized up E46 320d (electronic actuator) took a lot of effort to get it cleaned up properly, wished I'd thought of Mr Muscle at the time LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
