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Just skim read through all the pages. Worries me how many people jump on the "tighten the borders! Stop foreigners from taking our jobs!" Malarky.

Firstly, immigrant's in this country pay something like 20billion more in tax and visa's then they take in benefits so it's actually a good earner for us. It will become even more now that the UK Immigration Health Surcharge has come into effect (a system I helped to build [emoji14]). It completely dwarfs the cost of immigrants claiming benefits.

Secondly, I'm not being funny but, since when did an immigrant take anyone's job here? If they got a job that you were perhaps being interviewed for also, then 9 times out of 10 it's probably because they were better skilled. It's a bit like saying we're all going to buy Jaguars now, not because we like them but because these German car's are all flooding in and taking up all our roads! It's just simply an uneducated thing to state that immigrants are taking up our jobs! Some people just think way too highly of themselves like they deserve things just because you happen to be born here and someone else wasn't.

Thirdly, and this point pops up every single election... Just as many UK citizens migrate onto the continent, I'm sure they are thankful for these so called 'open boarders'.

Lastly, not a single political party has all the answers, so please, stop looking at what they are saying and instead look at simply the facts, judge which of the facts effects you the most and then vote for the party who'll fix it for you the best. Don't go asking others who they think you should vote for, it just sparks up a massive sales pitch to gain their chosen party another vote and has very little effect on getting what the majority of people actually want!

My two cents.

Agreed with the above. The main reason for my vote is the NHS. It's not something I want the Tories in charge of as I rely quite heavily on it with having young children. I know a lot of people moan and bitch about it but the fact remains its one of, if not the best in the world. I don't want it to be carved up and made into a cash cow. It's there to be a service, not a business. I don't know what i'd do without it in all honesty. I found a lump last week and I've already got an appointment for a ultrasound the week after. Couldn't ask for more than that and if Labour say they're going to introduce more GPs and more nurses, rather than cutting 2000 nurses in the case of the Tories then it's a no brainer for me.

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http://leftfootforward.org/2015/03/five-ukip-u-turns-that-show-farage-still-hasnt-got-his-policies-sorted/

Another reason I doubt UKIP - for such a young party they seem very indecisive ....

Oh, I see another racist was "found" in the party yesterday.

Edited by The_judge aka Suf

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If anyone thinks open borders is a good thing then go for a party who agrees. You cannot deny that the health service, the schools, the roads etc can't cope anymore and if you say it's nothing to do with the free for all of the last 20 years then you're deluded.

Yes a lot of brits leave this country every year, but how many of them aren't either retired so living off a pension, or taking a valuable trade with them? As soon as they can't fend for themselves they're packed off back to Britain.

Dazrave I have to disagree on the taking our jobs comment to a degree. The problem is they are flooding the market with cheap labour that we can't compete with. We can't cover a mortgage and raise a family when we are competing with 10 men renting a house together and working for half the price. We do have a load of f**kwits in this country who like to harp on about 'them' taking our jobs but the majority of those have never and won't ever work anyway and they just use it as an excuse.

Anyone who is serious about voting and serious about this country needs to have a proper read up on what has happened in the past 20 years or so (by labour, conservative and the eu), what is happening now and what is planned for the future. Read up on the EU and what they are planning. Also ask yourself why everything they do is done under the radar and why we have zero say in any of it. Not just what you read in the biased papers or hear in the pub, actually do some research and then make your decision

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It's not completely invalid Daz when they are working for half the price we can afford to work for. Nobody is denying we have too many parasites as stated earlier in this thread

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It's not just about cheap labour, they do the jobs unemployed people in this country simply don't want to do.

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I know who im votin for, but who ever gets in they need to close this loophole,

A polish male working in uk , a wife an 4 kids back in poland hes claiming 1500 quid a moth in tax credits for his wife an children and sending it directly to poland avery month,

True story as my daughter in law works in a bank an this is whats going on.

An apparently all legal,

Moz

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Im UKIP all the way, I think they deserve a chance, I remember when Conservatives came into power, a whole host of promises made and so many broken, but the main one was cuts into the NHS, especially after lobbying throughout their campaign how they backed the NHS and how they saved his wife and babies life during a difficult pregnancy. More recently the police force followed closely by the armed forces aswell as local and district councils. I am not in anyway disputing the work that has and was needed to be done regarding the deficit BUT think it was quite brutal in how it was managed especially to begin with, for me making cuts isn't the answer, its more about the people in power, the people who control how money is spent in these establishments, the people who waste the money are culpable not the whole organisation (i do have a vested interest here, wife - Nurse, Father - retired police office, Brother - armed forces) and you can see where and how money is being wasted. To think I actually voted Conservatives based on their election campaign but struggle/ have struggled to see their original campaign and promises coming to fruition - jeez!

As has been said before UKIP is the only party who have costed their budget/ promises etc .. and TBH it seems to stand up to scrutiny too, I don't believe/ haven't seen them change any of their manifesto and as far as politicians go - Nigel Farrage seems alright and straight to the point.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion but if you are not going to vote as they don't have a seat in your constituency then things will never change, I am going UKIP because I believe they more than anyone deserve a chance, I don't think they will win but election upon election they are gaining more and more support.

My thoughts don't shoot me for them!

Edited by Chrissyp83

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If anyone thinks open borders is a good thing then go for a party who agrees. You cannot deny that the health service, the schools, the roads etc can't cope anymore and if you say it's nothing to do with the free for all of the last 20 years then you're deluded.

Yes a lot of brits leave this country every year, but how many of them aren't either retired so living off a pension, or taking a valuable trade with them? As soon as they can't fend for themselves they're packed off back to Britain.

Dazrave I have to disagree on the taking our jobs comment to a degree. The problem is they are flooding the market with cheap labour that we can't compete with. We can't cover a mortgage and raise a family when we are competing with 10 men renting a house together and working for half the price. We do have a load of f**kwits in this country who like to harp on about 'them' taking our jobs but the majority of those have never and won't ever work anyway and they just use it as an excuse.

Anyone who is serious about voting and serious about this country needs to have a proper read up on what has happened in the past 20 years or so (by labour, conservative and the eu), what is happening now and what is planned for the future. Read up on the EU and what they are planning. Also ask yourself why everything they do is done under the radar and why we have zero say in any of it. Not just what you read in the biased papers or hear in the pub, actually do some research and then make your decision

I'm sorry but saying people are deluded for stating facts against something you only think/your opinion does not form a very well constructed argument/debate here.

No one nor did I say open boarders is for the best. I simply stated its wrong to think immigrants are an issue. In fact, I dislike the laws the EU enforce on our country as I don't believe they're is ever a way to enforce the same rule across multiple, and very different cultures.

Just think outside of the box a little bit here. So, immigrants are under cutting us Brits by working for less? What? Less then the minimum wage you mean? Hmm. How Is that an immigrants fault? If anything, some poor immigrant is getting proper done over by a greedy employer who is clearly exploiting them and breaking the law while they are at it!

We've nobody to blame for the current state of this country other then ourselves, and, if you follow the link somebody posted earlier, the country itself isn't half as bad as the media or the political parties make out it to be.

You say everyone else should check out the facts, but you haven't used any in your claims, meaning they simply stay as opinions.

Edited by DazRave

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The thing that annoys me and this is my biggest gripe, is the brutal cuts we have endured, nhs crumbling, public services cut etc yet foreign aid is not only enshrined in law but increased. We need to sort ourselves out first and then look at helping others. If we can't afford to build more schools and fund our hospitals we shouldn't be funding other countries. We're even funding other countries defence yet ours have had nothing but cuts for years, even though they we facing an increased terror threat year on year. Priorites are all wrong.

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As I said in my earlier post Dazrave, people need to research themselves and not rely on media hype. I do not rely on hype and do my own research. So to state you have facts vs me having opinion is wrong.

On the minimum wage note, I'm talking actual trade rates not minimum wage. Clearly the minimum wage is the minimum wage. Trade rates are different.

The only reason we have only ourselves to blame for the state of the country is because we keep voting the same 2 parties time and time again.

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To play devil's advocate - if those ten people were, say, two to a house, then the flip-side issue would be that immigrants are stealing (already limited) housing facilities.

I guess the problem is not that they live/work in this style, but that 'we' 'refuse' to do so.

Housing is an issue that I think needs addressing - as a good earner, still living at home, I have no realistic hope of buying a house on my own (no shared ownership etc.) I'd want to live in (see previous point) any time soon :(

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I'm loving this banter but could you guys post any links to some of the "facts" you are telling us?

After all a credible source means a lot, without one it could just be downthepubhearsay :)

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The thing that annoys me and this is my biggest gripe, is the brutal cuts we have endured, nhs crumbling, public services cut etc yet foreign aid is not only enshrined in law but increased. We need to sort ourselves out first and then look at helping others. If we can't afford to build more schools and fund our hospitals we shouldn't be funding other countries. We're even funding other countries defence yet ours have had nothing but cuts for years, even though they we facing an increased terror threat year on year. Priorites are all wrong.

So, you'd rather four nuclear subs instead of, say, one, maybe even three? It's a good point though, today's threat on terror doesn't half tremble at the thought of a nuclear missile shot from a submarine. Getting back to reality though, they probably have never even heard of the word submarine and to my understanding the department responsible for anti-terror etc has been given a bigger budget over the last few years (correct me if I'm wrong).

I'm not saying whom ever you are voting for (I suspect UKIP) are not the right party for the job here either, I'm just quizzing the things you say and encouraging you to look deeper at issues as I doesn't appear to me that you have. (Even if you have suggested others should look back at the past and future policies of the EU etc)

Anyway, we could go back and forth on issues like this all night but at the end of the day most peoples minds on here have already been made up on who to vote for (one of the main reasons I've not spoken about actual parties or whom I myself are voting for).

Also, on a side note, don't take anything I have said personally either as it hasn't been intended that way.

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I simply stated its wrong to think immigrants are an issue.

So you think Immigration isn't an issue ?

Edited by Daz 330 Cs

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I simply stated its wrong to think immigrants are an issue.

So you think Immigration isn't an issue ?
It's certainly not half the issue most people on here (first few pages) have made out it to be. The original poster wanted to know who to vote for, wanted some facts etc. Yet for a few pages there was simply an onslaught of stereotypical 'down the pub' type opinions that immigrants are taking all our benefits and stealing all our jobs.

I offered a counterargument to those claims and I don't mind backing up the facts in my original post either once I jump onto my laptop instead of using the tapatalk app.

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I have read the manifest of Conservative, Labour, Lib Dems and UKIP. I've also read the Strasbourg treaty.

I was actually going to vote Conservative until I came upon Rule 44 and that's when I decided UKIP. I spend a lot of time reading up and as stated, I'm not here to prove anything to anyone, it's all there on the parties websites to read if anyone is in the least bit interested. If they were, I would hope they would have already had a read in order to make an informed decision rather than waiting to be guided through it.

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I don't think anyone thinks immigration isn't an issue to some extent, however blaming every problem in this country solely on immigration and foreigners as certain people/parties suggest isn't really addressing ANY of the other real problems in this country as they're just completely ignored and put down to those 'bloody foreigners coming to take our jobs, use our nhs and cause traffic jams on the M4'

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Anyway guys, I don't usually get involved in political discussions for obvious reasons so on that note, I'm out.

Thanks for the banter :thumbup:

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From what I've heard Cameron has completely slashed the deficit from the Labour f*ck ups, and that given another term he would finish the job

Yet this says otherwise (not sure which is right after all "there's lie, damn lies and statistics") http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/ramesh-patel/growth-cameron-austerity_b_2007552.html

Torys haven't slashed the deficiet inhertited from labour...from 2009 Q2 to 2010 Q2(last year of alister darlings DR program,,,the uk economy grew by 1.9%....if the coalition had continued similar policys then growth would have been slow but steady(without growth you cant reduce borrowing or start on the national debt)...instead they came in and slashed/burned and cut(even disbanding the forensic science service)..this chocked off growth for 3 years until osbourne slowed the cuts dramatically,bringing his DR policy more in line with the Darling DR program of 2009...this,coupled with helping the house asset bubble and the return of consumer debt spending has given us the small growth we have...as the ONS noted recently the Gov is noware near re-balancing the economy away from the services sector...so this recovery is being driven by consumer spending and as the IFS noted last week unsecured borrowing has risen to levels not seen since 2005,whilst manufacturing and construction are still way behind were they should be if osbourne had indeed had a "lonterm economic plan"....and export`s that should have lead the recovery are not there....our balance of payments with the rest of the world are truly shocking..if growth in mid 2010 had been nutured not smashed then the deficit would be a lot smaller by now....osbourne is just as incompenatnt as the shocking brown

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.

Firstly, immigrant's in this country pay something like 20billion more in tax and visa's then they take in benefits so it's actually a good earner for us. It will become even more now that the UK Immigration Health Surcharge has come into effect (a system I helped to build [emoji14]). It completely dwarfs the cost of immigrants claiming benefits.

Didn't have time to jump on my laptop but here's a link to an article on the Guardian (bare with me) which refers to an independent study made by people much smarter then myself to back up my original point above.

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/nov/05/eu-migrants-uk-gains-20bn-ucl-study

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I'm loving this banter but could you guys post any links to some of the "facts" you are telling us?

After all a credible source means a lot, without one it could just be downthepubhearsay :)

Bob..if you go to the ONS website or the OBR website or the ukpublicspending.co.uk...its all their...took me months to go through it but basically this.....

1997-2002...labour run surpless...2003-2007...labour borrow £20bn per year to invest in public services(add 1% NI increase for NHS)...so before the global liquidity crisis of 2008,the deficit was £82.4 bn(this is were hindsight comes into play)...if there was no global financial crash(our financial sector is tied with new York as the biggest on the planet,so we were f**ked as much as the usa) then according to treasury forcast the deficit was due to fall to £15bn by 2014/15 or 35% of gdp(best year under the 18 tory years was thatcher in 87/88...34% of gdp)...so the ensuing global crash caused spending to rise by £74bn from 2008-2010(excluding bank bailouts) to £156.4bn but was already on a downward trajectory in the Q2 of 2010

Edited by Sonar Daddy

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