Silver Streek Posted September 25, 2009 Report Share Posted September 25, 2009 A big thanks to e46zone!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Had it not been for this forum I probably would not have taken my manifold off and inspected my swirl flaps. Needless to say, thank god I did. I found two of the swirl flaps were loose on the spindles. Somehow the screws must have worked loose as there was a good 3mm of movement. So I took a hacksaw to them, and tapped the hole with an M5 tap and threadlocked stainless screws in. Glad I have got rid of the swirl flaps before they trashed my engine. My advice to anyone with a diesel engine that could have the problem............... Simple, take off the manifold and get rid of the flaps. If yuo cant do it, get a mate to help, its not too hard just fiddly. I just hope now I have a reliable engine as a BMW should have. Oh and I took the car for a run, and its absolutely no different incase you were wondering, youd never know they werent there. Cheers guys and gals Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
staddly Posted September 25, 2009 Report Share Posted September 25, 2009 A big thanks to e46zone!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Had it not been for this forum I probably would not have taken my manifold off and inspected my swirl flaps. Needless to say, thank god I did. I found two of the swirl flaps were loose on the spindles. Somehow the screws must have worked loose as there was a good 3mm of movement. So I took a hacksaw to them, and tapped the hole with an M5 tap and threadlocked stainless screws in. Glad I have got rid of the swirl flaps before they trashed my engine. My advice to anyone with a diesel engine that could have the problem............... Simple, take off the manifold and get rid of the flaps. If yuo cant do it, get a mate to help, its not too hard just fiddly. I just hope now I have a reliable engine as a BMW should have. Oh and I took the car for a run, and its absolutely no different incase you were wondering, youd never know they werent there. Cheers guys and gals Excellent news you lucky b*****d - now go and buy a lottery ticket Glad we could help Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silver Streek Posted September 25, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 25, 2009 1 loto ticket bought!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris Posted September 26, 2009 Report Share Posted September 26, 2009 Cant believe BMW didnt do a recall to sort this! So many people who have had this problem its untrue Good job though, save you some pennies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
momo Posted September 26, 2009 Report Share Posted September 26, 2009 You lucky git! lol. Well done on removing them before any damage was caused.. I will probably be doing this to mine too at some point so its good to hear there's no real effects on removing them! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gravy Posted September 26, 2009 Report Share Posted September 26, 2009 Sorry if this is a stupid question, but do petrol cars have swirl flaps? What are they? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris Posted September 26, 2009 Report Share Posted September 26, 2009 No only tractor engines Hides Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flat6 Posted September 26, 2009 Report Share Posted September 26, 2009 Yep, it's a huge problem and seems to be when they'll fail, rather than if. The company where I work makes the OE pistons for all BMW diesels and our Aftermarket division has sold a huge number of replacement pistons resulting from swirl flap failure.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom Mark Posted September 29, 2009 Report Share Posted September 29, 2009 You can buy proper aluminium billet style blanks for sensible money if you search the web, finishes the job nicely Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silver Streek Posted September 29, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 29, 2009 I looked at getting the blanks from pmw ltd in chelmsford, but they are about 12 quid a shot, when you can buy stainless screws a tap and thread lock fr a couple of quid. Does exactly the same job, and wont fail, for far cheaper. However if they were visible and therefore on display, id have bought the blanks. Just have to make sure you tap the whole properly and use the correct strength threadlock with decent stainless screws. Obviously make sure you screw the screws in from OUTSIDE inwards, so if they did fall out (they wont with threadlock) they will fall out of the manifold into the engine bay, not into the engine. Fairly easy mod, but soooooooooooooooo worth it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
staddly Posted September 29, 2009 Report Share Posted September 29, 2009 I looked at getting the blanks from pmw ltd in chelmsford, but they are about 12 quid a shot, when you can buy stainless screws a tap and thread lock fr a couple of quid. Does exactly the same job, and wont fail, for far cheaper. However if they were visible and therefore on display, id have bought the blanks. Just have to make sure you tap the whole properly and use the correct strength threadlock with decent stainless screws. Obviously make sure you screw the screws in from OUTSIDE inwards, so if they did fall out (they wont with threadlock) they will fall out of the manifold into the engine bay, not into the engine. Fairly easy mod, but soooooooooooooooo worth it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Good effort mate I too was busy at the weekend in the flap area when the mods approve it there will be a DIY on how to I have to say though, although there seems to be massive numbers of people with this issue (and i have first hand experience) you have to remember that the e46 was selling around 500,000 cars per year, with a high proportion of those being the quality reps car of choice, the 320d and the 330d. Combine these with the numbers of diesel 5 series sold fitted with the same technology and you have an astounding number of cars over the model life time (2001 - 2007 for the offending engines) well into the millions. Taking this into account, even a 'dodgy batch' of manifolds that could effect anything up to a run of say 50,000 cars or even 100,000 would only represent a small percentage of the over sales. Admittedly, it looks like the UK got the dodgy batch but but they are hardly the figures that warrant a recall. Don't get me wrong, I have one of the engines, and I have seen first hand the depression that is caused when one of them goes bang and BMW don't want to know - it is morally wrong! I just thought I would put another slant on it for ya Moral is - just check yours over! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flat6 Posted September 29, 2009 Report Share Posted September 29, 2009 Spain, Italy & Germany also have very high failure rate on these, so I don't think it's limited to the UK.. BMW seem to be getting off lightly on the most part, as the failures are generally outside warranty. Anyone been given a goodwill repair? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silver Streek Posted September 29, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 29, 2009 I agree staddly when you look at the stats, the failure rate is fairly low and even "acceptable" in BMW eyes. (Not if its your car tho!!!) Given that it does happen, i think it well worth spending a few hours taking off the manifold to inspect the flaps. And as you have the manifold off anyway, you may aswell deflap it, it only takes about 5 to 10 mins per flap if using the tap and screw method, even quicker with the balnks. Its nice to have the peace of mind to know your engine isnt about to self distruct and land you with a huge out of warranty expense. I imagine even second hand engines are pricey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silver Streek Posted September 29, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 29, 2009 PS look forward to reading your DIY , even if I have already deflapped her Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vanbasten Posted November 1, 2009 Report Share Posted November 1, 2009 Well my engine went bang on Friday night after a lot of strange vibrating noises under acceleration. No engine Management light came on. Car taken to stealers on saturday morning and will await their phone call tomorrow when they have diagnosed the problem. Am dreading them saying it a swirl flap that has come loose. If it is, does anyone know if the dealer applies for payment for the so called "goodwill fund" or do i have to action the claim myself by contacting BMW Customer Services? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vanbasten Posted November 3, 2009 Report Share Posted November 3, 2009 Stealer just contacted me with the news that my engine is totalled. 2 options availble from stealer in a new engine fully fitted for £5,500 or a rebuild of current engine for £5,000. These figures include all vat labour and "goodwill" from BMW. Car isnt worth much more than £6500 so not really economically viable. Does anyone know how insurance works regarding a writeoff? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeM Posted November 3, 2009 Report Share Posted November 3, 2009 Stealer just contacted me with the news that my engine is totalled. 2 options availble from stealer in a new engine fully fitted for £5,500 or a rebuild of current engine for £5,000. These figures include all vat labour and "goodwill" from BMW. Car isnt worth much more than £6500 so not really economically viable. Does anyone know how insurance works regarding a writeoff? Thats crap news mate, id be contacing BMW direct, see if you can get them to foot the bill! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
momo Posted November 3, 2009 Report Share Posted November 3, 2009 s***, sorry to hear that mate! As above - get onto BMW HQ! I've heard of some cases where the Garage pay labour and you pay parts.. Either way - keep pushing someone! Everyone knows its a design fault.. Hopefully they accept and pay it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
staddly Posted November 3, 2009 Report Share Posted November 3, 2009 Sorry to hear your news Vanbasten, another one on the list unfortunately It seems dealer 'goodwill' offers seem to vary depending on weather the car has full BMW hisitory, purchesed through dealer with warranty, has extended warranty etc. Unfortunately, if your car is outside 'the system' this might be the best offer you get from the dealers. (I would try contacting BMW direct though, as JoeM said, but you may find they form a 'united front'. Dont forget though, if you car no longer has the benefit of being in the dealer system, you could always get a quote from an indipendent garage to re-build the engine (or fit a new one sourced seperately) - this happened to my father in law and BMW did't want to know at all - he got his re-built, using BMW parts, for £3500 in the end. I know it's a lot of money, but its less then the dealers would charge. You dont have to get it done by them! Ask what warranty you will get if BMW do the work as opposed to what an indipendant would provide as well when considering. Good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suhail97 Posted November 3, 2009 Report Share Posted November 3, 2009 I'm sure I read somewhere the BMW good will applies if your car is less than 5 years old, has full service records (non bmw included) and less than 100k miles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silver Streek Posted November 3, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 3, 2009 Thats a major 5hitter mate, sorry to hear that. As everyone above says, try BMW direct and see if you can get the price down. If not try a good idi, they should be able to rebuild your engine for far cheaper than the stealers. At the end of the day if you write the car off, you still either have to pay off the loan and sell the enginless car, or if you have paid off the loan you still have to sell the enginl;ess car and buy a new one. All that will at least cost you what a replacement car would. No idea if your insurance company would pay to fix it or replace it if they were to write it off. Maybe worth asking the question. Would a fubar engine be covered under motorinsurance if it wasnt caused due to an accident or vandalism????????????? Good luck with it and keep us posted. Just hope it hasnt put you off E46's or BMW's in general. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singh Posted November 3, 2009 Report Share Posted November 3, 2009 If your car is fully maintained (full service history, in line with BMW stipulations, whether done by them or not) and swirl flaps cause the engine to go bang - would this be covered by your insurance? Im guessing it would not be, but then not sure if the insurance would try to get BMW to pay for it given: - its a manufacturing/design defect - something which is not an isolated case (or caused by neglect - hence the service history) - BMW are aware of it and have done nothing But then, I guess why would they insurance care....but then would any other organisation be able to assist? I guess from an Insurance point of view, they wont do anything - just like if your cambelt broke and totalled your engine.....or am I wrong? The more I hear about this, the more I want to remove them from my car. Really dont fancy a £5000-ish bill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
staddly Posted November 3, 2009 Report Share Posted November 3, 2009 I think going down the insurance route will be a complete non starter! Singh - If you have not already done so, you need them checked over, taken out or upgarded AS YOUR NEXT MOD!!! You have been warned Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singh Posted November 3, 2009 Report Share Posted November 3, 2009 I think going down the insurance route will be a complete non starter! Singh - If you have not already done so, you need them checked over, taken out or upgarded AS YOUR NEXT MOD!!! You have been warned Yep, not done them as yet. Will look into this for sure. Just wondering, assuming you had BMW warranty on your car, and you removed the swirl flaps, would that invalidate the warranty? Is there some unfunny irony in that question...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vanbasten Posted November 3, 2009 Report Share Posted November 3, 2009 I think going down the insurance route will be a complete non starter! Singh - If you have not already done so, you need them checked over, taken out or upgarded AS YOUR NEXT MOD!!! You have been warned Listen to the advice mate - i just wish i had!!!!! £200 or £6000 for new engine - no brainer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
