Aidan316i Posted February 23, 2010 Report Share Posted February 23, 2010 Recently just booked my boats & hotels for Munich & Nurburgring aswell as visiting a little road called the Transfagarasan highway i'm looking to "prep" the car as such Now i've already done the bigger brakes option (330 Front Discs, Calipers & Carriers) and thinking of changing the rears to maybe some EBC discs to match the front, but in 316 size as the 330 conversion is fairly difficult and not cost effective What about changing the lines etc? Also, speaking to the BMW specialist I use he does Powerflex bushings, I've already done the Wishbone bushes and he can get me the anti-roll bar ones aswell as the rear kit (diff carrier & rear trail arms) worth doing? Finally, he also does strut braces at £30 each+ VAT, says the rear strut brace is a good job and does sharpen the car up, worth doing the front and rear? Any other help or suggestions is welcome Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mit Posted February 23, 2010 Report Share Posted February 23, 2010 No offence, but I don't think any of this is going to be worthwhile on a 316. What kind of performance advantage are you hoping for? Nurburgring isn't really an off road track. It's pretty smooth, so you should be fine with your normal car (that's kind of the whole point)! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scrimja Posted February 23, 2010 Report Share Posted February 23, 2010 I've heard that switching to steel brake hoses can be a good mod. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam_Burns Posted February 23, 2010 Report Share Posted February 23, 2010 No offence, but I don't think any of this is going to be worthwhile on a 316. What kind of performance advantage are you hoping for? Give over Mit, its not about that...its the Nurburgring FFS, its just about the experience and slamming your foot to the floor and going, any mechanical modification is going to help whether its a 316 or a M3..... Id love to go one day! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidan316i Posted February 23, 2010 Author Report Share Posted February 23, 2010 Mit i've been before, done around 11 minutes, didnt time it exactly But I had a ball and thats why I want to go back And theres always something slower going round the track! Any advice guys? Hoping one or 2 people who do track days fairly often can help? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mit Posted February 23, 2010 Report Share Posted February 23, 2010 11 minutes is pretty good - isn't that the time Jeremy Clarkson took in a Jag S-Type, and then they got that woman to try and do it in a van? If you don't have powerflex bushes already I'd recommend those anyway, even for the road. Otherwise strut brace, stiffer suspension etc will all help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazh Posted February 23, 2010 Report Share Posted February 23, 2010 Got all of the bushes on mine except the diff mounts done in poly and there is a marked difference to standard rubber. Can be quite labour intensive to take out if the original bushes are in good nick so prepare for that. I've also a hefty front strut brace, was looking at a rear one the other day. Stainless hoses are a great upgrade. End of the day mate, its your motor if you wanna spend the money, why not? Clarkson did it in ten so pull your finger out Just kidding mate, keeping it on the road is more important Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
autosri Posted February 23, 2010 Report Share Posted February 23, 2010 deffo do the brake lines mate the fronts are the most important ones as they take the most abuse ive just bought some ebc redstuff so will have them fitted from all the hype they seem really good and some dimmled and grooved disks although they are mostly for looks i have a front brace fitted it was a 40 quid one off ebay and it has done something but not a massive difference but every little helps i would have fitted a rear brace but im not cutting the carpet up in the boot im trying to save for anti roll bars but not getting on very well lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nlau1 Posted February 24, 2010 Report Share Posted February 24, 2010 No offence, but I don't think any of this is going to be worthwhile on a 316. What kind of performance advantage are you hoping for? Nurburgring isn't really an off road track. It's pretty smooth, so you should be fine with your normal car (that's kind of the whole point)! Isn't the Nurburgring supposed to be deceptively bumpy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonlpearce Posted February 24, 2010 Report Share Posted February 24, 2010 The ring itself is actually quite smooth the bumps are more like crests in the road rather than pot holes. The best bit of advice i could give is to get yourself a good number of hours practice on a simulator/computer so you can learn the track. As far as brakes go i wouldnt expect you to boil your brake fluid when doing 11 minute laps, unless of course you do 5-6 laps one after the other. If this is your plan then stick some 5.1 in there and uprate the clutch and brake lines to braided then when you get back home stick normal 4.0 back in. As far as strutt braces go, tbh i doubt you will really notice the difference as i wouldnt expect you to be pushing the car to its limit regardless of the fact you may be bouncing off the redline all the way round. Its all to do with the lines you take and the pressures put on the car, and lets face it none of us are race drivers so we will never be running perfect lines and carrying the most speed possible through a bend. That said be safe and enjoy, and give your car plenty of time to cool down as its gotta get you home at the end of the day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suhail97 Posted February 24, 2010 Report Share Posted February 24, 2010 brake lines braided and maybe some high performance lubrication for engine and transmission? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazh Posted February 24, 2010 Report Share Posted February 24, 2010 Get some Rogue Engineering strut mounts for the rear also, they make a huge difference over the originals Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daz 330 Cs Posted February 24, 2010 Report Share Posted February 24, 2010 11 minutes is pretty good - isn't that the time Jeremy Clarkson took in a Jag S-Type, and then they got that woman to try and do it in a van? Saw this on an old TG the other day , After many laps Clarkson manages 9.59 in the Twin Turbo Jag Diesel , then Sabine did it in 9.12 on her 1st drive of the car. Then she managed 10.08 in a 136hp Transit , that gives you some idea of how damn fast she is through the corners ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidan316i Posted February 24, 2010 Author Report Share Posted February 24, 2010 @dazH: I may well for the those bushings & strut braces then! But now you mention strut mounts you're making my ages disapear more rapidly! @autosri: Much were they if you dont mind me asking? @simon: done the 'ring before, worst bit has to be the mini-carusell & carusell itself! Blocks of concrete ffs lol Can do the clutch lines as its an Auto mate @dazzle: I met her at Nurburgring, she's a damn quick driver, and its safe to say, "Ye Would" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
autosri Posted February 24, 2010 Report Share Posted February 24, 2010 not sure if you mean the lines or roll bars so The front brake lines I made myself they were dead easy to make but I can't get a bra ket I need to do the rears but gunna get some goodridge ones soon so the fronts will be going spare and the roll bars for a 330 coupe are about 340 I would think a loon wound be the same Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom Mark Posted February 25, 2010 Report Share Posted February 25, 2010 Isn't the Nurburgring supposed to be deceptively bumpy? Nope, unless your doing 300 clicks down the main back straight in a Carrera GT. Been round in race prepped Porsches, Viper SRT10, Carrera GT, E46 320d, E36 M3 (race prepped) and a whole bunch of other stuff, none of them felt particularly bumpy at all........with the exception of the above, that was down to sheer speed and running near the bump stops at that velocity. worst bit has to be the mini-carusell & carusell itself! Blocks of concrete ffs lol Agreed, but you can drive around the outside of those if you want to, tbh I think it sounds worse than it is Btw, OP.... IMHO Your brakes at least will be just fine with that setup, you will never really be going fast enough to hammer them past the ability of EBC's, I went with Grooved and Drilled and Red Stuff with my 320d, never faded them once because most of the time you are sub 110mph, only a couple of big stops from 120/130ish mph on a lap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daz 330 Cs Posted February 25, 2010 Report Share Posted February 25, 2010 @dazzle: I met her at Nurburgring, she's a damn quick driver, and its safe to say, "Ye Would" Hell yeah ! Shes a Honey ! No doubt about that ! Have you seen the way she drives the M5 Ring Taxi ? God Damn she can seriously drive !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonlpearce Posted February 25, 2010 Report Share Posted February 25, 2010 I bet if she couldnt drive you wouldnt look twice at her, that said i still would Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daz 330 Cs Posted February 25, 2010 Report Share Posted February 25, 2010 Just some random Facts pasted from a website , New tyres every 10 laps !!! The Ring Taxis (there are two) are V10 BMW M5s with modified suspension and brakes, one of them driven by Sabine Schmitz (formerly Sabine Reck). Both come highly recommended, but Sabine is said to be faster. A lap costs €195, but can take three passengers so it's pretty good value split three ways. In fact, it's excellent value as it is reputed that it costs BMW €480 per lap. (Following an accident years ago in which either a wheel or suspension component failed, BMW changes the tyres every 10 laps, the brake-pads every 20 laps and the suspension every 50 laps. The cars are replaced annually.) The Taxis get fully booked around a year in advance, but they do sometimes get cancellations. To book, call +49-2691-932 020 or email ringtaxi@ok-speedmarketing.com. If you can't get a booking, it's always worth asking at the office on the day, and also watching out for people who have hired it but are not using all three passenger seats: more than one person has got a lap by asking the people who've hired it if they can pay for a place in the empty seat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidan316i Posted February 25, 2010 Author Report Share Posted February 25, 2010 @autosri: I meant roll bars, will be doing the "D" bushes for them, but never thought to actually upgrade them! @Phantom Mark: I had to drive around the Carussel due to a guy in a bike who wouldnt move over for me or the 3 cars behind me! @Daz: Yeah saw her and some other guy drifting the 2 of them at a spectator spot, my god she can drive! lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris Posted February 26, 2010 Report Share Posted February 26, 2010 New hamster??? Bet you cant wait And anything suspension wise will reduce time, as performance is not on your side, handling will have to be aimed at. Personally since you have dont the 330 upgrade, that will be good enough imo providing they are decent discs and pads. When yopu get powerflex ARB's let me know how much difference they do. As mine seems a bit wollowie (is that a word lol) at higher speeds, and i know the ARBs need doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snortdavis Posted March 1, 2010 Report Share Posted March 1, 2010 Recently just booked my boats & hotels for Munich & Nurburgring aswell as visiting a little road called the Transfagarasan highway i'm looking to "prep" the car as such Now i've already done the bigger brakes option (330 Front Discs, Calipers & Carriers) and thinking of changing the rears to maybe some EBC discs to match the front, but in 316 size as the 330 conversion is fairly difficult and not cost effective What about changing the lines etc? Also, speaking to the BMW specialist I use he does Powerflex bushings, I've already done the Wishbone bushes and he can get me the anti-roll bar ones aswell as the rear kit (diff carrier & rear trail arms) worth doing? Finally, he also does strut braces at £30 each+ VAT, says the rear strut brace is a good job and does sharpen the car up, worth doing the front and rear? Any other help or suggestions is welcome I have some experience at the Ring, so let me weigh in here. 1) if you're not upgrading the size, don't bother replacing the rear rotors unless they're near or below min spec thickness already. Good pads are a good idea (PFC, Pagid, etc are great, but can be $$$. Don't know much about the EBC pads, but understand the red stuff pads aren't really up to the job, whereas yellowstuff may be. Ask around about that one) but if you're only doing one lap at a time, instead of 5-6 at a stretch, the OEM pads will probably suffice. 2) Lines are a decent idea if your car is old (OEM lines are looking dried out, starting to show cracks, etc). If you're going to replace them anyway, just go ahead and get stainless lines, which will improve braking feel slightly. If your OEM lines are still OK, then it's not strictly necessary. I would, however, change fluid. DOT 5.1 fluid is probably an unnecessary expense, just get good DOT 4 fluid (ATE Typ 200/Superblue, or Motul RBF600 are popular choices) and you'll be fine. 3) Powerflex bushings probably wouldn't be a good choice for your rear trailing arms. These bushings need to allow the arm to move through two axes, so you need the compliance of a rubber bushing. I believe the E46 M3 bushings fit all E46 cars, this would be a cheap way to upgrade your rear end feel (your RTAB's probably need doing anyway, this is a consumable part, and they usually only last 40-60k miles anyway). If you want to tighten up the feel a bit and make the RTAB last longer, you can always get a set of RTAB limiters (vorshlag.com, turnermotorsport.com, etc. etc.) which will limit the movement but still allow the required flex. Differential mount bushings probably wouldn't be a bad idea, but I'd probably stick with the OEM pieces unless you track your car alot (which it sounds like you don't). Anti-roll bar bushings, I don't know about. You could probably improve the performance of your ARB slightly, as the polyurethane won't compress like the OEM rubber bushings, but make sure you lube them up plenty, or they will squeak really badly. 4) As for the strut bar, most guys I know who track alot either have no rear strut bar, or a full cage. I think the rear bar is generally just a showpiece. The front bar seems to be of recognized benefit but get one where the ends are rigidly fixed, and don't pivot in the bracket. 5) Ditto on the simulator time, etc. Gran Tourismo, Forza Motorsport, R Factor (on the PC), all have decent Nordschleife tracks available. Also, I highly recommend you check out the following file:BMW M presents the Nordschleife ideal line and use that to guide you. No video game will completely prepare you, but it's always good to get a good feel for which way the track goes so you can at least remember sections, even if you've been there before. (I lived in Germany, and still reviewed that file every time before I went) My BTG time is 9:15, which isn't fast, by any means, but I think that's down much more to being a chicken in my daily driver. Have fun, and if you want somebody to photo you, check out www.touristenfahrerforum.de -- there are lots of guys there who do trackside photography if you can decipher the german and ask somebody to take some shots of you. If you haven't done so already, check out the site previously run by Ben Lovejoy at http://www.nurburgring.org.uk/ for some great info, as well. Snort Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidan316i Posted March 2, 2010 Author Report Share Posted March 2, 2010 @chris: Yeah i'm borrowing one of your Mars Planets Already done the 330 upgrade at the front, but wont do the rear ones Will let you know price of bushings etc @snortdavis: I've been to the 'ring once before, but the car was ALOT more standard The rear brakes still have a bit of life left in them but will get changed before I leave anyway The rear pipes were done last year (MOT failure) but may well upgrade them! Speaking to the specialist I dont think he can get the RTAB's by powerflex, not even sure if they do them? Strut bars I may well go for, nearly bought a C/F one on saturday, but it wont fit as its for a 6pot! Will defintly be brushing up on the simulator to "re-fresh" my head of the layout lol Already seen Ben Lovejoy's site and found it very helpful! Thanks for the help guys! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidan316i Posted March 20, 2010 Author Report Share Posted March 20, 2010 Been doing a bit more research and was on the CA Automotive site and noticed these: ROUGE ENGINEERING RTAB'S REINFORCEMENTS Not big money, but seeing as i'll be doing the RTAB's with Powerflex ones, worth going for too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
