Budget Track Day Car

[2clubsp]

Just to get this clear on my mind, to get more castor you'll need adjustable top mounts. Right?

[Edges]

You can do either offset wishbone bushes which only gain you a small amount, or adjustable solid top mounts which you can gain a lot with. 

[gchristofi]

Love reading this! I'm talking a friend into this sort of thing with me! Personally don't see the point in camber arms if you already got about -2 rear anyway? You don't want any more than that I wouldn't have thought because then you're losing traction. As much as I love to see m sport bumpers etc, se spec much easier and cheaper to find if you brake something! Cracking thread though. As far as front alignment goes, I've been playing with it on my daily 325, track day tyres with FK coilovers. I found about 1mm toe in worked much better than any toe out. And if you can, as much caster as possible. No need to measure, just as far as it'll go. My experience on 595 rsr tyres is they love camber on the front. But at abou 3.5 think you probably got it right 

Do it. Especially if u can share the cost with a friend, it is the best legal high per £ :-)

Camber arms were more of a "whilst I'm in there, might as well" , but true, lowered as it is on std adjusters I probably have enough rear camber already. They will make it easier for me to fiddle around with camber without a ramp if the need arises though.

Looking forward to trying the new diff soon.

Get looking for that cheap donor.

[Edges]

I know, track driving is the best fun you can have!! My mate and me already have a track project, Clio 172 (I've had one before) and a relative wants me to help him convert his Alfa 156 wagon to a track car, so got a couple but neither are BMW to be fair, I've always thought the camber arms are more reliable than eccentric washers but mines a road car so wouldn't see the point.

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[TriggerFish]

A cheap track car is something I'd absolutely love (when I move out and have some more driveway/garage space anyway!).

Purchase costs/mods are easy enough to price up, but what does it tend to cost to run? (Not so much insurance etc., but fuel, tyres, consumables?) Would I find myself able to buy one, but then not run it as track days are too £££ or something?

[gchristofi]

On 6/25/2016 at 12:46, Edges said:

Love reading this! I'm talking a friend into this sort of thing with me! Personally don't see the point in camber arms if you already got about -2 rear anyway? You don't want any more than that I wouldn't have thought because then you're losing traction. As much as I love to see m sport bumpers etc, se spec much easier and cheaper to find if you brake something! Cracking thread though. As far as front alignment goes, I've been playing with it on my daily 325, track day tyres with FK coilovers. I found about 1mm toe in worked much better than any toe out. And if you can, as much caster as possible. No need to measure, just as far as it'll go. My experience on 595 rsr tyres is they love camber on the front. But at abou 3.5 think you probably got it right 

This is a good point.  Cost of the actual day paid to the organiser varies massively by season and track and organiser.  Cheapest are evenings which can be around  £80 for 3 hours track time.  Full days with open pit lane start around £130 all the way up to £350 plus for around 7 hours on track.  There are some novice days aimed at introducing beginners to the track in a less intimidating environment.  In fact, several years back when I first got my e30 track car, I managed to jump on some BMW subsidised days at Bedford and Brands for around £50.  These days were run by BMW to allow owners of their new cars to test them to their full potential. I don't think I was the intended audience, but so long as it was a BMW and road legal, the track accepted the booking.  Don't know if they still run them, but those days were great value.  Once you've got a few days under your belt and feel comfortable on track, Opentrack.co.uk run the best days in my experience.

So what about consumables?  I've never done the maths, but here comes an attempt (based on a full day in 330 e46)

Fuel - £70-100 including getting to a local track.
Brake pads, Yellow stuff fronts, Black or reds rears, averaging about 5 full days, cost around £90 if you really shop around therefore approx £20 a day
Front Brake discs - £60 the pair if shopping around and lasting around 6 days so £10 a day.
Tyres - Federal 595 rsrs 245 35 18s approx £400 fitted looking ok after 5 full days and 4 evenings.  Guess half worn so would do 15 full days, therefore around £25 a day
Servicing and fluids - Guess adds £10 a day

Total back of envelope approx  is therfore £150 a day in consumables.  This is doing all work yourself.  This also varies massively by track and how you drive.  For example, Bedford Autodrome is very fast and uses a lot of brakes and fuel whereas Brands is much lighter on both.  I have also tended to spend a lot of the track hours out on track whereas many would probably only put in half the time and take long rests so their consumable spend would be proportionally smaller.   This is not really a cheap hobby and definitely much more accessible if you do it with a mate or two.  

It's a good idea to have an idea of how many days a year would suffice.  I've averaged around 6, but occasionally only done 3.  This year has been exceptional as I try to develop this "budget" car.  Personally think it looks like good value against a season of golf! :-)

 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 29, 2016 by gchristofi
typo

[Edges]

I did 2 full track days last year in my Clio 182. With the day, fuel, wear and tear, I reckon it was £400 a day. And they were only £140 for the slots.

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[Dave330]

This is a cracking idea, given the availability/cheapness of E46s, and something I too had considered. However, at 1400kg+ I felt like the E46 was too heavy to be a really good track car. Even if you can strip 150kg out (no mean feat), you're  still looking at a lot of mass to be throwing around. I felt like I'd get fed up with lighter cars (French hatches, MX5s) with less power out-braking and out-cornering me (and probably out-accelerating too). Surely the increased wear on things like braking materials, tyres and suspension bits will increase your cost in the long-run?

A friend and I decided to go down the French hatchback route, although something a little different from the Clio/Saxo/106 norm. Our aim is to be around 900-920kg with about 140bhp, which would give performance on par with a stock 330. Coilovers, sticky Federals and refreshed brakes (no need to up the size/pistons with such little weight) should see us keeping up with 'quicker' cars in the twisty bits.

[R11CH]

1 hour ago, Dave330 said:

 

A friend and I decided to go down the French hatchback route, although something a little different from the Clio/Saxo/106 norm. Our aim is to be around 900-920kg with about 140bhp, which would give performance on par with a stock 330. Coilovers, sticky Federals and refreshed brakes (no need to up the size/pistons with such little weight) should see us keeping up with 'quicker' cars in the twisty bits.

You will still want more power.

I have my Civic Eg6 tin top down to 850kg and 200bhp, its awesome fun but the straights are a killer especially with the aftermarket final drive.

People also say cheap track car, i believe this doesn't exist. Once you get hooked you cant help but want more and more from the car. I bought my civic for 4k and i have spent well over 20k improving the car plus the maintenance side of it takes a bit of time.

If i were to do it again i would buy a car already done save a lot of money.

[Dave330]

56 minutes ago, R11CH said:

You will still want more power.

Undoubtedly, in the long run. However, at the moment it doesn't look like we'll be getting out much more often than 4-5 times a year. If that changes, we'll be certain to inject enough cash to make the project a bit more interesting.

For the time being, we'll be picking tracks with short straights!

[TriggerFish]

20 hours ago, gchristofi said:

This is a good point.

<snip>

Great reply, thanks! I appreciate the time taken with that list.

Not cheap, but by no means bad. When you consider people spend that on a couple of nights getting bladdered then it's good value indeed. I can, and would, do any work myself, so it would just be parts.

Maybe I will need to go into it with someone, otherwise I fear I'd be not using the car enough to justify the ownership costs due to the running costs (if that makes sense?!). It's still on the cards, but maybe in a year or twos time..

[gchristofi]

 

8 hours ago, Edges said:

 

8 hours ago, Edges said:

 

 

 

I did 2 full track days last year in my Clio 182. With the day, fuel, wear and tear, I reckon it was £400 a day. And they were only £140 for the slots.

 

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So an extra £100 or so of wear and tear, what did you do, hit the armco? I jest of course but this does raise the point that this will vary greatly by car / track / cost of consumables.  I haven't really factored any wear and tear into the rough calculation but I figure the car is pretty worn and torn as a track slag anyway.... In fact, this picture shows the result of the last 50 minute non stop session at Bedford Southwest.... I just consider it part of the lightweight program and will be fixing with a saw!

 

 

 

I reckon the biggest risk to any sensible budgeting is the big slippery slope when starting out with any new car either ready converted or starting..... you will ALWAYS end up wanting more.  That's why it's good to start cheap and leave out a few affordable mods for the first season.

 

Oh, and I definitely got full value from the last set of rear pads...!!!

 

Edited June 30, 2016 by gchristofi

[gchristofi]

On 6/30/2016 at 12:49, Dave330 said:

This is a cracking idea, given the availability/cheapness of E46s, and something I too had considered. However, at 1400kg+ I felt like the E46 was too heavy to be a really good track car. Even if you can strip 150kg out (no mean feat), you're  still looking at a lot of mass to be throwing around. I felt like I'd get fed up with lighter cars (French hatches, MX5s) with less power out-braking and out-cornering me (and probably out-accelerating too). Surely the increased wear on things like braking materials, tyres and suspension bits will increase your cost in the long-run?

Can't argue with the weight adding to costs, I'm pretty sure the fuel bills were lower in the old e30 325.  Somewhat surprisingly, I've found the car in it's current state more than a match for mx5 s and a good match with the well prepared 182s.  The weight used to be mooted as a downside for the e46 vs e36 but a bit of reading around the net shows a new consensus emerging that the more capable chassis / suspension / brakes of the e46 platform more than compensates (especially in the saloon).  There is also reference  to suggest there isn't actually a big difference once stripping as the bare chassis of the e46 and e36 as delivered from the factory are almost exactly the same weight.

To me, the biggest downside of the 330 is the fact that the engine is already well optimised for bhp and torque so there's no easy cheap way to eek out more.  So far though, this car on budget mods has surpassed expectation... 

Edited February 9, 2017 by gchristofi

[Edges]

So an extra £100 or so of wear and tear, what did you do, hit the armco? I jest of course but this does raise the point that this will vary greatly by car / track / cost of consumables.  I haven't really factored any wear and tear into the rough calculation but I figure the car is pretty worn and torn as a track slag anyway.... In fact, this picture shows the result of the last 50 minute non stop session at Bedford Southwest.... I just consider it part of the lightweight program and will be fixing with a saw!

Well, each day did 3 tanks of fuel, set of £150 Carbon lorrain pads done in 2 days, tyres about destroyed. Service before each day, plus food, drink, adds up to be fair.

Anyway I think we're getting away from the point of your thread haha. Any more cool updates?

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[gchristofi]

On 7/2/2016 at 07:06, Edges said:

Well, each day did 3 tanks of fuel, set of £150 Carbon lorrain pads done in 2 days, tyres about destroyed. Service before each day, plus food, drink, adds up to be fair.

Anyway I think we're getting away from the point of your thread haha. Any more cool updates?

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Those Carbon Lorraine have a good reputation for performance, but at some price if you kill them in 2 days.  Likewise tyres... which type?

No cool updates as yet, but hoping to get to Brands Next week and see what happens with the lower final drive differential. Being a short circuit and with what were previously lots of high speed 3rd gear cornering, It's not impossible that the car with be slower at Brands I suppose!  Hope not.  Will report back soon. 

[Edges]

As for tyres, I was running 595 rsr but swapped the wheels while they were still OK after a track day, couple sprint days and lots of road miles. Then went into Goodyear eagle f1 a2. Got them second hand around 6mm, lots of road miles plus 2 full track days they were ruined lol.

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[gchristofi]

Well the last 4 months went by in a flash.... I never did get to Brands Hatch in July.  My modest project to swap in the 3.38 diff snowballed somewhat (there's that dangerous $lippery $lope) to include replacing all the rear subframe bushes.  I decided this was beyond my driveway talents and took it to my local trusted garage.  Even they struggled with the subframe bushes and had to farm the job out.  I did take the opportunity to fully inspect the rear metalwork where subframe attaches and was happy to see no issues.  Also had the propshaft rebuilt whilst it was out.

I finally have the car back on the road and it certainly feels a different beast.  The new bushes make fast gear changes a dream.  Only other  progress is  stripping out a further 4.3 kg from the headlining and bits and bobs (total stripped approx 81 kg so far).  Heading to Cadwell Park on Monday, so if the rain can stay away, it's going to be very interesting to find out what the shorter gear ratios do to lap times.  This time, I will report back and hopefully not in 4 months time!

[avalaugh]

The 3.38 transforms the car, best value mod I've done to mine, FYI it will still hit 148mph

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[gchristofi]

Great photo, I'd calculated 142 on a conservative 6500 red line. I certainly won't make that on most circuits without adding a blower!

[RMJ]

Great read mate! Good for you with the budget keeping!. Your 100% on point with your statement it's the best fun per £ out there building a track car.

how has the car been recently? Had a chance to get on track? I'll be tracking my 330d from about May time, may even bump in to you (not literally!) if your out this year? 

[gchristofi]

On 2/7/2017 at 23:05, RMJ said:

Great read mate! Good for you with the budget keeping!. Your 100% on point with your statement it's the best fun per £ out there building a track car.

how has the car been recently? Had a chance to get on track? I'll be tracking my 330d from about May time, may even bump in to you (not literally!) if your out this year? 

Thanks, and thanks for the nudge to post an update.... been too long as usual but somehow, months zoom past in a blink!  I've seen a few 330d at track and they certainly up to the task.  Do you have any modifications?  Opentrack days are best, maybe see you there. :-)

I'm loving the diff swap, it's a great mod and combined with the new sub frame bushes, gear changes done in anger are so much better.  I had a few more days in the car at the end of last year, but only having the Federal 595rsr to run and generally cold and wet conditions, it was near impossible to get heat into the tyres and find grip.... so I still don't know if the diff swap has benefited overall lap times.  (certainly added more fun factor).  I had a great session at Bedford SEN circuit in January where I did manage to warm tyres up. 

On the subject of tyres, I decided to "invest" in some wets and an affordable impact wrench so I have options at track when the heavens open up.  Online consensus pointed me at Uniroyal Rainsports 3 xl as a good budget wet.  4 of these in 225 45 18 came in at just over £200 from Camskill, so good value.  When looking around for suitable rims to mount them, I discovered that bmw MV1 are just about the lightest genuine BMW alloys you can buy (just over 10KG each) and also widely available.  So bought another set at £170 for the wets to go on.   Dedicated sets of track wheels start new at around £6-700 and weigh in at approx 9.5 KG each; even knowing this is unsprung weight, didn't think the extra cost is justified.  Just for reference, MV2 are significantly heavier than MV1, as are e46 M3 alloys making MV1 a performance bargain :-)  .  Not tried the wets yet, but I'm sure will get the chance at some stage this year.

Also in the pipeline, have purchased a faster steering rack (purple tag from Club sport) which is 2.8 turns lock to lock rather than 3.2 as fitted to early 330i.  I hope this will make the steering feel better for track work and counteract the over assisted feel.  Also finally got aorund to buying a Corbeau clubsport xl seat which is waiting to be fitted, along with a 6 point TRS superlight harness (out of FIA date). Looking forward to trying these and measuring the weight saving over the standard seat.  I noticed I was beginning to tire of hanging on the wheel by the end of a full day on track so fixed back bucket seat should help.  Since I've come this far ($lippery $lope), now looking at rear cage options just to complete the Track Car as it should be and of course provide an ideal place to secure the harness shoulder straps.   

Every time I consider what direction to take, next project, alternative cars, etc., I end up concluding that considering the total outlay so far, this car is doing very well and I'll stick with it for now.  A track modified 330 i / Ci is more than a match for a road spec e46 m3, and still cheaper than the doggiest M3 available.  (Note: before shooting this notion down, I'm comparing a modified 3 ltr e46. to a standard road going M3, obviously a modded M3 will be a different story but you'll soon be into the £15-20k budget when mods begin)

Next update will be when anything of note occurs! 

 

Edited February 9, 2017 by gchristofi

[RMJ]

20 hours ago, gchristofi said:

Thanks, and thanks for the nudge to post an update.... been too long as usual but somehow, months zoom past in a blink!  I've seen a few 330d at track and they certainly up to the task.  Do you have any modifications?  Opentrack days are best, maybe see you there. :-)

Every time I consider what direction to take, next project, alternative cars, etc., I end up concluding that considering the total outlay so far, this car is doing very well and I'll stick with it for now.  A track modified 330 i / Ci is more than a match for a road spec e46 m3, and still cheaper than the doggiest M3 available.  (Note: before shooting this notion down, I'm comparing a modified 3 ltr e46. to a standard road going M3, obviously a modded M3 will be a different story but you'll soon be into the £15-20k budget when mods begin)

No worries, I always enjoy reading threads like this over the usual build. But in saying that I'm usually quite biased to the more track orientated setup

Yeah ive quite a list of mods but I am most importantly choosing the right coilovers right now! I will be following suit with the H&R ARBs as you have done as they are a really good upgrade. Yeah ill be out on the Open days!, you'll have to post up here when you've booked your next session!.

Thats good to know about the weight of MV1s! I didn't expect that at all! will grab a set myself as spares too. The steering rack will certainly be an improvement mate, much nicer feel on track. Post up some pics and let us know how you get on with the seat and harness, I've got a fixed bucket and just figuring out the best method to fit it and swap it out between track days. Im considering getting a spare seat subframe.... an angle grinder and a welder  

Its all about the underdog surprising the flagship model, and even better when on a budget! 

 

Edited February 10, 2017 by RMJ

[avalaugh]

Fit one of these to help improve steering feel

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/122348125829

Best £40 you'll spend on the car, feels great in mine now

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[R11CH]

8 hours ago, avalaugh said:

Fit one of these to help improve steering feel

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/122348125829

Best £40 you'll spend on the car, feels great in mine now

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I purchased that kit after you posted it the other day along with a set of powerflex front lower bushes, hoping to see a nice improvement 

Edited February 10, 2017 by R11CH

[jurgt]

Hi,

I'am from the Netherlands and bumped onto this tread by google. I was wondering how the NJT Coilovers are holding on the track? Is it any good for the money? 

Thanks!